Rutger Bregman 的访谈以多组时间与数量线索串起“理想需要力量”的论点，并将“人才浪费”指向金融等高薪行业。宏观背景是 Trump 重返白宫满 1 年、在 Davos 的强硬谈判姿态（包括 Greenland）加剧盟友感受的“被霸凌”。Bregman 以 2020 年 2 月口罩预警为类比，称当下同样处在对 AI 冲击“低估”的节点：未来 3、4 或 5 年内，大多数人仍不了解将要发生什么。

他用历史数字强调技术与制度的双刃性：英国 Queen Anne 曾有 17 次怀孕且子女均在 18 岁前夭折，今天靠现代技术“都会活着”；但 Industrial Revolution 至少 1 个世纪让多数人境况恶化，19 世纪的 Luddites“基本上是对的”。他批评欧洲“先监管后产业”：欧盟几年前高调推出 AI Act，却“几乎没有 AI 公司”，并在军事上依赖美国；他支持增加军费，但担忧资金主要用于购买美国武器而非本土产能。

Bregman 以制度与运动的量化例子论证“力量背书”与“创业者角色”：1807 年英国废止奴隶贸易前，有“数十万人”签署请愿并参与抵制，随后英国皇家海军迫使“80%”的其他国家也停止贩奴。他称 The School for Moral Ambition 试图把原本会去对冲基金的人才转向“最紧迫议题”，并指出道德运动常由创业者推动：英国废奴协会 12 位创始人中 10 位是企业家。他还给出公益外部性数字：若伦敦的 Against Malaria Foundation 创建者 Rob Mather 在 20 年前去世，将会有超过 100,000 人因疟疾死亡。对美国政治风险，他提到 2028 年是否仍有自由公正选举的不确定性，并主张将 UBI 作为严肃选项，甚至改称“universal basic wealth”。

Rutger Bregman’s interview uses multiple timelines and numeric anchors to argue that ideals require power and that finance is “wasting” scarce talent. The setting is one year after Trump’s return to the White House and Davos tensions over Greenland, which Bregman likens to February 2020’s “stockpile masks” moment: most people still underestimate what AI will bring in the next 3, 4, or 5 years.

He frames technology’s double edge with historical counts: Britain’s Queen Anne had 17 pregnancies and all her children died before age 18, a contrast meant to highlight how modern technology changes survival. But he also says the Industrial Revolution was bad for most people for at least a century and that 19th-century Luddites were “basically right.” On Europe, he cites a lag between regulation and industry: the EU announced its AI Act “a few years ago” yet has “hardly any AI companies,” and he supports higher defense spending but worries it mostly buys American weapons.

Bregman quantifies how power can translate values into outcomes: in 1807 Britain abolished the slave trade after “hundreds of thousands” signed petitions and joined boycotts, and the Royal Navy then forced about 80% of other countries to stop slave trading. He links moral change to entrepreneurship, noting that 10 of the 12 founders of the British abolition society were entrepreneurs, and to impact metrics, claiming that without Against Malaria Foundation founder Rob Mather, more than 100,000 additional people would have died over the past 20 years. He also points to political risk on a 2028 election horizon and argues for treating UBI (or “universal basic wealth”) as a serious policy option to distribute AI’s gains.